Twilight 2013 to end publication in December 2010

[Stich2.0]

Hopefully this asshat gets banned soon.

You can't win, Cavtroop. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

And don't call names!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111

I didn't do anything. Stop all the hatin.

[Raellus]

Hey guys, the mod hat is on. Keep it civil. No name calling or blatant provocations. You're free to share your opinions here as long as you do so in a mature, respectful manner.

[Eddie]

Keep it civil. No name calling or blatant provocations. You're free to share your opinions here as long as you do so in a mature, respectful manner.

So we're going to ignore illegal activity and preach good manners, instead

I'm sure most of us, if not all, have downloaded something copyrighted, but to preach to do so in a public forum Isn't that a little much Especially when two of the creators of the copyrighted material are semi-frequent members of this forum...

[Raellus]

I'm sure most of us, if not all, have downloaded something copyrighted, but to preach to do so in a public forum Isn't that a little much Especially when two of the creators of the copyrighted material are semi-frequent members of this forum...

That was one of the "blatant provocations" that I was referring to. I will have a word with the individual advocating this as well.

[helbent4]

That was one of the "blatant provocations" that I was referring to. I will have a word with the individual advocating this as well.

Rae,

Maybe Kato or someone should add this into the New Member thread It's hard to make a hard and fast rule on what is a gentleman's agreement.

That while it's recognised that copyright violation via file sharing is a fact of life, discussion or encouragement to do so with regards to T2013 is considered bad taste in this forum. In fact, all such discussion is best left to PMs or private emails.

Tony

[Snake Eyes]

Why only 2013 Is piracy of earlier versions OK or something

[Stich2.0]

So we're going to ignore illegal activity and preach good manners, instead

I'm sure most of us, if not all, have downloaded something copyrighted, but to preach to do so in a public forum Isn't that a little much Especially when two of the creators of the copyrighted material are semi-frequent members of this forum...

I noted that there are 1,251 copies successfully downloaded from just one site. I then considered that since this forum is one of the largest online communities for this particular game I'm absolutely sure I am not the only person here who believes that information ought to be shared.

BUT! I shall stop about the illegal activity (even though I live in a country with more freedom than the actual "land of the free" and so it isn't illegal). No need to send the sheriff after me with a stern warning. I get your point and I'll just keep it under my hat.

You have my word.

[Fusilier]

Why only 2013 Is piracy of earlier versions OK or something

I think so. But that's just my opinion. Some people out there are interested in the game but can't afford the money to spare on a PDF, but costs 0$ for me to duplicate. If it means helping people enjoy the game (and participate in my online game) then I won't hesitate to do so.

I'm not going to encourage others to do the same, but I'm also not going to stop either. The more people with the opportunity to experience the 1/2.2 the better I think.

[helbent4]

Why only 2013 Is piracy of earlier versions OK or something

Snake,

There's more of a hot button issue with T2103 as Tegyrius and others have worked on it, and it's a more current product. In other words it's more of a direct affront to them, personally. Not some point of abstract legal principle that isn't universal, largely given lip service where it is but otherwise mostly ignored.

Give T2013 twenty years like T2K, we'll see if anyone cares at that point about who's pirating it any more than T2K. At that point, I would welcome it if there were still a dedicated community and fan base for T2013, even if not all have paid. At least they're playing it or otherwise keeping it alive.

In the end I don't think anyone would flip if I were to mention that I just downloaded scans of all the SPI Moves magazines, S&T #1-60 and Ares magazine. Score!

Tony

[Raellus]

I think the issue with T2013 is that it's all just happened recently. The wounds are raw. Tegyrius and Keith just watched hundreds of hours of their hard work fall to pieces. They can still recoup some of their costs if people pay for the merch that they produced. This is not a cash cow. They'll be lucky if they break even. Actively undermining their efforts to recoup some of the costs on this forum is somewhat of a personal attack. That's what I don't want to see here. I'm not advocating that sort of wheeling and dealing here (I purchased both the v1.0 and v2.2 rulebooks- used- at over original cover price and I bought the original v1.0 box back in the day) but if you really must, please conduct that sort of business via PM.

As for earlier versions of T2K, the people that hold the liscenses and sell the PDFs had nothing, AFAIK, to do with the creation or sale IMO of the original T2K products. IMHO, it should all be open-source now (i.e. free), but that's not how it works. DriveThru and other "legit" sources must be making a killing selling PDFs since they cost nothing to produce. Whatever. I understand what Eddie and Snake are saying. We shouldn't be using a public forum to conduct activities that are technically illegal.

[Snake Eyes]

I guess somebody probably ought to check with Marc Miller and verify that pirating that other stuff is really OK with him. I'm sure he's cool with it. Not like there's any real money at stake.

Far Future Enterprises
1418 N Clinton Blvd
Bloomington, IL 61701 USA

Email: farfuture@gmail.com

http://www.farfuture.net

[Eddie]

Tegyrius and Keith just watched hundreds of hours of their hard work fall to pieces.

For the record, my name is on the Designed by: line as well. It's a little personal to me, too.

[helbent4]

I guess somebody probably ought to check with Marc Miller and verify that pirating that other stuff is really OK with him. I'm sure he's cool with it. Not like there's any real money at stake.

Snake,

When those mugs send me the T5 I pre-paid for, we'll talk.

(Not that I really mind, of course, my dough is going towards developing their future product.)

The truth is, I don't need Marc Miller to tell me what he thinks I should download, when or for what purpose. The laws and customs of where I live are different than yours, as all ya'all would say I don't have a dog in this hunt. Besides, I think we all use some copyright material without permission, it's not the end of the world.

As for T2013, I already bought two copies with real money, I'm encouraging others to do the same if they want, and there it is. Merry Christmas to you, and to everyone!

Tony

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Before people start blaming Far Future Enterprises for anything, they should remember that it's a one-man operation. Marc Miller, by himself with a little help from family and friends. If your order is a little late, send him an email and ask what's up, it's really that easy and he's alway been very approachable in the correspondance I've had with him.

Before people start claiming places like DriveThru RPG are making a profit from old GDW products, they are an authorised distributor and their authorization comes from Marc Miller, the legitimate licence holder for those old GDW products.

Before people start spruiking free downloads for anything, they should remember that this is an international forum and in some countries what you're advocating is illegal or unethical and at times just outright insulting to the originators of that material.
It's all well and good to claim that information should be shared but when you start distributing the hard work of someone for free, you prevent those people from making any money from their legitmate efforts. Why the hell would they then want to make more material for a hobby that doesn't give them a big return for their efforts in the first place. You're not sticking your fingers up at some megalithic corporation like Ha$bro here, you're simply screwing over a very small group of people who had hoped to make some contribution to the gaming community and at least get paid for their efforts.

BAH humbug! It's the 25th of December and I hate people already
No wonder I like cats & dogs better

[Tegyrius]

Do you want a copy

Look at your copy's title page.

Look at my sig line.

Now think long and hard about the degree of uninformed dickery you just displayed.

I noted that there are 1,251 copies successfully downloaded from just one site. I then considered that since this forum is one of the largest online communities for this particular game I'm absolutely sure I am not the only person here who believes that information ought to be shared.

BUT! I shall stop about the illegal activity (even though I live in a country with more freedom than the actual "land of the free" and so it isn't illegal). No need to send the sheriff after me with a stern warning. I get your point and I'll just keep it under my hat.

No, you don't even begin to get the point. But you gave us a number. Let's talk about that for a second.

The PDF you advocate pirating is currently at Gold sales ranking on DriveThruRPG, the venue that accounted for the vast majority of softcopy sales. Gold ranking means that product has sold between 501 and 1,000 copies (this isn't privileged data, BTW... the Gold ranking is on the product page and the correlation of sales to tiers is available with a little digging). So, by your data, lost sales from piracy are greater than actual softcopy sales.

1,251 copies. At $20/copy. Assuming DriveThru takes 50% of the gross (which is implausibly high - I think it's probably around 30%), that's $12,510 in lost revenue.

$12,510 in lost revenue for a one-man company that, to the best of my knowledge, is shutting down for financial reasons.

Congratulations. Your belief that information ought to be shared is a direct contributor to the demise of Keith's dream and the cessation of work on Twilight: 2013. I hope you enjoyed what you got because that's all there's going to be.

You have my word.

Don't bother. You've already shown us your idea of integrity.

- C.