Why no China?

[Olefin]

per various sources - pre-1987 - with transition occurring in their army from then on into the late 90's/early 2000's from divisions to brigades

Each field army division under the old system had over 12,000 personnel in three infantry regiments, one artillery regiment, one armored regiment, and one anti-aircraft artillery battalion as well as support units

The garrison units were smaller as they usually only included infantry and artillery and typically only had three regiments of infantry and one artillery regiment

If you look at how the combat capable divisions were organized during the V1 and V2 timelines they were organized as follows:

three regiments (of three battalions each plus support units) (either armor or infantry) and then a fourth regiment that was either armor (in an infantry division) or infantry (in an armor division), an artillery regiment, an anti-aircraft regiment (or battalion), and then signals, engineer, recon, chemical defense battalions or companies and combat service units

There were many differences between category A and category B units - and the relative lack of APC's at the time meant that outside of armored divisions many infantry were transported in trucks. Similarly there was a lack of SPG's so mobile artillery in many cases was rocket artillery and most divisions had towed guns.

Also category A units had the best equipment while category B made do with older tanks and APC's - or in many cases were truck borne only as to transport

The current army is somewhat different as they use the brigade concept - so if you are looking at Twilight 2013 you are looking at brigade formations

Example - typical current PLAGF artillery brigade has 4 artillery battalions each with 18 guns in 3 batteries and 1 self-propelled anti-tank gun battalion (18 vehicles)

Currently a PLAGF armored brigade after the 1990's reorganization has 4 tank battalions with 124 main battle tanks, each composed of three tank companies of 31 tanks (10 per company and one battalion commander tank), a single mechanized infantry battalion with 40 APC's, one artillery battalion with 18 SPG and one anti-aircraft battalion

The tank divisions that the Soviets would have faced in V1 and V2 would have had three full regiments of tanks, each with 3 battalions each - thus 93 tanks per regiment with a total of around 280 tanks per division plus a full infantry regiment with (in a category A unit) some 120 APC's of various types

[Olefin]

FYI there are at least two Chinese Armies we know that the US forces linked up with per canon

US Army Vehicle Guide

25th Light Infantry Division - 9/7/97 - linked up with elements of the 31st Army

2nd Infantry Division - 8/1/97 - met up with and relieved surrounded Chinese 2nd Para Division. Then mentions it briefly came under the command of the Chinese 28th Army till that army's HQ was nuked and the army disintregrated

28th Army - from our timeline - From 1971 to 1998, this army corps belonged to the Beijing Military Region and was based in Shanxi Province, initially in Houma and then in Datong. At the time of its dissolution in 1998, the 28th Army was composed of the 82nd, 83rd and 205th Infantry Divisions, the 7th Armored Division, an artillery brigade, an anti-aircraft brigade, an engineer regiment, a communication regiment and a reconnaissance battalion.

31st Army - now the 73rd Army in our timeline - It was based at Xiamen, Fujian and is composed of the 86th, 91st, 92nd and 93rd Motorized Infantry Divisions, along with an armored brigade, an air defense brigade, a surface-to-air missile regiment, an artillery regiment, and an engineer regiment. It is considered a Category A unit, with priority status in terms of readiness, strength, and modern equipment

the 2nd Para on the other hand is a completely invented unit as far as I can find - there was no real Chinese 2nd Para Division

[shrike6]

the 2nd Para on the other hand is a completely invented unit as far as I can find - there was no real Chinese 2nd Para Division

That either gives you a free hand to replace it with one of the real PRC Airborne Divisions or claim that they activated more airborne divisions during the war.

[RN7]

the 2nd Para on the other hand is a completely invented unit as far as I can find - there was no real Chinese 2nd Para Division

Chinese airborne divisions were under PLA Air Force control. the Chinese 15th Airborne Corps was a 35,000 strong force of 3 airborne divisions (43rd, 44th, 45th). There were other airborne regiments or brigades that may have equalled a division in size but I cant get a unit number for it.

When the Soviets invaded China this would have been a strategic reserve to be used against Soviet forces. They would have been better quality troops than the average PLA division but they were lightly armed. At some point the PLA would have sent them against advancing Soviet forces, were they would likely have been chewed to pieces by better equipped Soviet forces in the meat grinder that was the Soviet-Chinese War. Maybe the PLA raised more airborne divisions to replace them as I doubt any of them would have survived at division strength after a year or more of fighting.

[Olefin]

I would also suggest that the 2nd Parachute Division is not a true Para division but instead a division that could be air transported into combat by helicopter or short field/rough landing capable transports that could be composed of excess Air Force personnel from the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force in other words a unit that was similar to the ones that Goering created after 1941 during WWII

And I agree that there is a very good chance that their original Para force was used to try to stop the Soviets and had their heads handed to them possibly with a few survivors being used to form the new oePara divisions

[Olefin]

Here is an idea for how such a sourcebook could be done - this would be the entry for the 205th Infantry Division which was part of the 28th Army as an example

205th Infantry Division Northern Motorized Infantry Division, Catalog A

The 205th took heavy casualties during the initial fighting in 1995, helping to stop the Soviet drive on Beijing. It took part in the 1995 counteroffensive and was then pulled off the line to absorb infantry and tank replacements. In early spring 1997 it rejoined the 28th Army and took part in the last Chinese counteroffensive, overrunning and almost destroying the Soviet 153rd Motorized Rifle Division in the process. The division was destroyed by four tactical nukes on August 18, 1997 leaving less than 300 survivors to be captured by the Soviets.

[RN7]

Here is an idea for how such a sourcebook could be done - this would be the entry for the 205th Infantry Division which was part of the 28th Army as an example

205th Infantry Division Northern Motorized Infantry Division, Catalog A

The 205th took heavy casualties during the initial fighting in 1995, helping to stop the Soviet drive on Beijing. It took part in the 1995 counteroffensive and was then pulled off the line to absorb infantry and tank replacements. In early spring 1997 it rejoined the 28th Army and took part in the last Chinese counteroffensive, overrunning and almost destroying the Soviet 153rd Motorized Rifle Division in the process. The division was destroyed by four tactical nukes on August 18, 1997 leaving less than 300 survivors to be captured by the Soviets.

Do you want to do a list like that of all the PLA divisions Olefin

[Olefin]

Do you want to do a list like that of all the PLA divisions Olefin

I have been thinking of doing it and see what I can come up with - not sure if there is real interest in such a sourcebook though - if I did it would be something like you see in the original US and Soviet vehicle guides using what canon sources I can find to come up with the best guess I can on what the fates were of the various Chinese forces

The 28th and 31st Armies we at least have canon references to so thats a place to start

In many ways it would be a historical document (i.e. the Chinese Army really took it on the chin and a lot of the entries are going to read "destroyed", " overrun", "nuked" etc.. (you get the hint) but could also show the best guess at what is left and who they may be answering to (i.e. the warlords mentioned in the canon)

[Legbreaker]

I think China's basically too screwed up to bother with. Their military forces have been utterly devastated, and the northern part of the country at least glows quite brightly at night and has a rather glassy look to it.

[Olefin]

I think China's basically too screwed up to bother with. Their military forces have been utterly devastated, and the northern part of the country at least glows quite brightly at night and has a rather glassy look to it.

I could see a possible list of what happened and then some expanded info on areas that most likely would be of interest to for campaigns - which I would think would be area mentioned in Raellus's Korean Sourcebook and the area surrounding Hong Kong for the UK players who want to do a campaign there

[Rainbow Six]

I wrote this years ago. The order of battle would need some changes to be canon compliant.

[Olefin]

I wrote this years ago. The order of battle would need some changes to be canon compliant.

Would definitely love to have that as part of any sourcebook

In fact one big source of info on what happened to the Chinese Army during and after the nuclear strikes as well as the status of whatever units remain would have been from the 6th as it fought its way back to Hong Kong and its activities after it got back

Based on it being part of the 31st Army for a short while it could have survivors from any of the units that were in that division - i.e. the 86th, 91st, 92nd and 93rd Motorized Infantry Divisions or the support units that were part of it - as part of the troops that are still with them back in Hong Kong

[Legbreaker]

A source book would probably need to focus on the southern part of the country plus a bit of SE Asia (Vietnam, Cambodia, etc but excluding the island nations such as the Philippines and Indonesia) to fill the pages with just a cursory coverage of the north.
Much of what's already in Bangkok, Merc and the Gazetteer would be applicable with a few minor tweaks here and there perhaps (Bangkok's vague enough that it can be used in either timeline without any trouble).
Northern China is just one big Devastated region with scattered random encounters and the odd Cantonment. Civilians have probably all cleared out of died long ago, and the soldiers that are left would probably be suffering quite badly from radiation, starvation and disease. The Pact units are likely looking to move back north out of the devastated zone, or east into Korea if they're still paying some sort of lip service to higher command.
Chinese units have likely become little different to marauders preying on each other and the handful of civilians too stubborn or unable to leave. Give it another couple of years and the whole region will likely be deserted for the most part with only rare settlements spread far apart to be found.

[Olefin]

I dont see Northern China as quite the wasteland you say it is Leg - mainly because the Russians still have troops there. If it was really the blasted radioactive ruin you depict then why do they have multiple divisions stationed in Manchuria still You dont waste good troops guarding radioactive ruins

[Legbreaker]

Perhaps my description was a bit excessive, but seriously, can anyone really imagine there's much going on there of interest
It was nuked heavier than anywhere else on the planet. Even Silesia, which suffered 97% population reduction didn't get hit anywhere nearly as hard as Northern China. Account for the hostile environment (even IRL it's not all that pleasant with 40 deg C (104F) summers and -30 deg C (-22F) winters), plus years of warfare, topped off with widespread nukes and there'd be lucky to be 1% of the population left - including the Pact forces bumping up the numbers.