OT: Putin's War in Ukraine

[pmulcahy11b]

If you meant the BLU-108 skeet dispenser,

Sorry about the mistake - BLU-108. It's just nastier and more "shock and awe" producing than an artillery barrage.

[kato13]

Germany to deliver 50 Gepard to Ukraine

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/germany-anti-aircraft-systems-ukraine-defence-military

The German government has announced that it is to send a fleet of around 50 anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine, as it attempts to offset criticism that it has been too slow to provide military equipment to the war-torn country.

Christine Lambrecht, the defence minister, pledged about the Gepard self-propelled anti-aircraft guns, in a speech to the representatives of 40 countries at high-level defence talks hosted by the US air force at its Europe headquarters in Ramstein, south-west Germany.

Not sure if the Gepards have been consistently updated, but back when I paid a lot more attention to this stuff, I considered them the cream of the crop. I will have a lot of interest in the ad hoc units Ukraine will be forced to put together. Pulling this back to being on topic, the mish mash of equipment does have a very T2k feel to it.

[Raellus]

Swiss Please

Not sure if the Gepards have been consistently updated, but back when I paid a lot more attention to this stuff, I considered them the cream of the crop. I will have a lot of interest in the ad hoc units Ukraine will be forced to put together. Pulling this back to being on topic, the mish mash of equipment does have a very T2k feel to it.

The Drive reported a couple of days ago that Switzerland has moved to stop the transfer of 35mm ammo for the Gepards, essentially rendering them very expensive decoys. I hope the Swiss change their minds.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-swiss-veto-threatens-delivery-of-german-anti-aircraft-vehicles

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[Raellus]

Battle Buggies

Have any of you ever used TOW-armed FAVs in your T2k

Ukraine essentially is:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukrainian-battle-buggies-are-out-to-kill-russian-tanks

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[kato13]

25 point summary of the last week. (Includes 10 maps)

https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1519893783537721346

First map I have seen of the Azovstal Metallurgical Zone

https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1519893793864101889

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRe73C-XMAIGdDbformat=jpg&name=4096x4096

[kato13]

The Drive reported a couple of days ago that Switzerland has moved to stop the transfer of 35mm ammo for the Gepards, essentially rendering them very expensive decoys. I hope the Swiss change their minds.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-swiss-veto-threatens-delivery-of-german-anti-aircraft-vehicles

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I have read that (perhaps lower tech) ammo can come from Poland and Turkey (and perhaps Norway).

https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/mesko-sa/

Mesko produces 35x228mm which wiki says the Gepard uses. I have not found the Turkish manufacturer but they are 35mm users and I can see them producing locally.

[shrike6]

I have read that (perhaps lower tech) ammo can come from Poland and Turkey (and perhaps Norway).

https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/mesko-sa/

Mesko produces 35x228mm which wiki says the Gepard uses. I have not found the Turkish manufacturer but they are 35mm users and I can see them producing locally.

They might be restricted as well. I'm betting both Poland and Turkey have a licence to produce that ammo. It may restrict who they can sale to as well.

[kato13]

Brazil may be the way around it.

Ammo problem solved Brazil wants to equip German Gepard tanks for Ukraine with 300,000 rounds

https://www-businessinsider-de.translate.goog/politik/deutschland/munitionsproblem-geloest-brasilien-will-deutsche-gepard-panzer-fuer-ukraine-mit-300-000-schuss-ausstatten/_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Also in reading the press related to this they keep referring to "Swiss Made" rounds rather than "Swiss Licensed" rounds. I know reporters don't pay attention to details anymore, but that is a huge difference if that is the case.

[shrike6]

I have read that (perhaps lower tech) ammo can come from Poland and Turkey (and perhaps Norway).

https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/mesko-sa/

Mesko produces 35x228mm which wiki says the Gepard uses. I have not found the Turkish manufacturer but they are 35mm users and I can see them producing locally.

I'm betting both Poland and Turkey have a licence to produce that ammo. It may restrict who they can sale to as well.

[chico20854]

One aspect I will be interested to read about in years to come (if/when it is declassified!) will be what is going on with the various fires in Russia over the last week. The chemical plant that produces most of Russia's missile propellant, two military research and development centers, various ammo and fuel dumps close to the Ukrainian border... Russia certainly has underinvested in maintenance and modernization of its facilities, resulting in a great many more fires on a day to day basis than we are used to, but this certainly looks like the work of Ukrainian special operations forces or intelligence agency paramilitaries.

I'll have the popcorn ready!

[Fallenkezef]

One aspect I will be interested to read about in years to come (if/when it is declassified!) will be what is going on with the various fires in Russia over the last week. The chemical plant that produces most of Russia's missile propellant, two military research and development centers, various ammo and fuel dumps close to the Ukrainian border... Russia certainly has underinvested in maintenance and modernization of its facilities, resulting in a great many more fires on a day to day basis than we are used to, but this certainly looks like the work of Ukrainian special operations forces or intelligence agency paramilitaries.

I'll have the popcorn ready!

Or maybe a false flag to justify a state of war to be announced at the big May Moscow parade

[shrike6]

I have read that (perhaps lower tech) ammo can come from Poland and Turkey (and perhaps Norway).

https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/mesko-sa/

Mesko produces 35x228mm which wiki says the Gepard uses. I have not found the Turkish manufacturer but they are 35mm users and I can see them producing locally.

MKE makes the barrels they also happen to make 35mm rounds in their ammunition division.

https://www.mkeusa.com/en-US/catalogue/medium-and-large-calibers/35-mm-msd-020-he-i/64/2130

[Spartan-117]

MKE makes the barrels they also happen to make 35mm rounds in their ammunition division.

https://www.mkeusa.com/en-US/catalog...0-he-i/64/2130

Good point. Nothing from the Cold War should present any problems for this endeavor. Design patents in the US are 15 years in length and a quick Google search shows Swiss patents are 20 years: https://www.ige.ch/en/protecting-your-ip/patents

This is not exotic 6.8mm CT ammo. Every shop that can produce it, should. And then send it to Ukraine.

PS: Also, what's the threat here from the Swiss We won't sell you ammo for 50-ish decades old weapons systems that you shoved in a warehouse years ago

[Raellus]

One aspect I will be interested to read about in years to come (if/when it is declassified!) will be what is going on with the various fires in Russia over the last week. The chemical plant that produces most of Russia's missile propellant, two military research and development centers, various ammo and fuel dumps close to the Ukrainian border... Russia certainly has underinvested in maintenance and modernization of its facilities, resulting in a great many more fires on a day to day basis than we are used to, but this certainly looks like the work of Ukrainian special operations forces or intelligence agency paramilitaries.

I'll have the popcorn ready!

I have a hunch it's cyber attacks, like Israel's Stuxnet attack on Iran's nuclear "research" centrifuges. I would be surprised if Ukraine hadn't been developing its cyberwarfare capabilities these past few years. Russia has a track record of hacking into Ukraine's power grid. Turnabout is fair play.

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[Vespers War]

I have read that (perhaps lower tech) ammo can come from Poland and Turkey (and perhaps Norway).

https://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/mesko-sa/

Mesko produces 35x228mm which wiki says the Gepard uses. I have not found the Turkish manufacturer but they are 35mm users and I can see them producing locally.

Aselsan is a Turkish manufacturer. They make an airburst round with tungsten pellets as the payload. NAMMO also manufactures ammo in 35x228mm, although I'm not sure where, given their multinational nature. And Rheinmetall makes some types of rounds in that caliber. I think Romarm in Romania also manufactures high explosive rounds (and training rounds), but not the more advanced rounds.