Announcement from Free League Publishing

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come across as pushy, or generate peer pressure of any kind. Whether or not to support any given Kickstarter is a personal decision.

-

My ire was not directed at you, so my apologies if it felt as though it was.
I share your opinion, whether to back the kickstarter is a personal decision and I never felt as though your interest in the kickstarter was generating any push at me to support it.

The following is not an apology for my post but an explanation to why I made that particular post.
My post was to express my irritation at the way in which one poster was encouraging us to support the kickstarter.
At best the method used was simple peer group pressure, at worst it comes across as very near to emotional blackmail. I tend to have a negative reaction to people who try that trick due to having to deal with people in the past who tried emotional blackmail to get what they wanted.

[Spartan-117]

You can trust that the last person I would expect to advance the cause of anything is someone who styles themselves 'StainlessSteelCynic.' Sorry I didn't provide that disclaimer before, but please know that you are off the hook for now and forevermore.

I'd ask that in the future, you refer to what I'm calling Olefin's rule - "And if people dont like what I post - then they are free to read something else ..."

Now if you will excuse me, I need to update my Ignore List.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

You can trust that the last person I would expect to advance the cause of anything is someone who styles themselves 'StainlessSteelCynic.' Sorry I didn't provide that disclaimer before, but please know that you are off the hook for now and forevermore.

I'd ask that in the future, you refer to what I'm calling Olefin's rule - "And if people dont like what I post - then they are free to read something else ..."

Now if you will excuse me, I need to update my Ignore List.

Sure, no worries mate, best of luck to you

[Ewan]

Fan produced sourcebooks etc will be a mixed bag as some people may want to push their own agenda on what the game should be.

Both the Korea and East Africa sourcebooks and the Rooks Gambit adventures are excellent examples of what can be achieved.

What would be interesting to see is more vehicle books by Tegyrius similar to the LAV-25 one, it covered a number of variants, unit organisation and individual vehicles combat service. Depending on what vehicles is included in the initial books it could see this being a welcome addition for people looking for something similar to the various vehicle guides that were produced for V1 and V2 and Czech Your Engine that came out for Twilight 2013.

[Tegyrius]

What would be interesting to see is more vehicle books by Tegyrius similar to the LAV-25 one, it covered a number of variants, unit organisation and individual vehicles combat service.

Thanks for the interest! I'm not ruling it out but I, at least, don't have anything else like that in the pipeline today (I'm currently dealing with a looming deadline on some contract work for Onyx Path and my next T2k project is likely to be something other than vehicles).

The LAV-25 was unique in that it's an iconic vehicle in the game, but its T2k production and deployment were widely divergent from its real-world history. This allowed me some flexibility in describing its combat history and the doctrine around its use. I couldn't do that as easily with something like the Bradley or the BTR series. Having said that... I do have a few other ideas for possible future works, but most of them wouldn't be as iconic as the LAV-25.

(Quite frankly, I'm surprised that the LAV-25 project didn't get crushed by the weight of grognards telling me I got the doctrine and unit organization wrong.)

Depending on what vehicles is included in the initial books it could see this being a welcome addition for people looking for something similar to the various vehicle guides that were produced for V1 and V2 and Czech Your Engine that came out for Twilight 2013.

Huh. I didn't think anyone actually downloaded and read that one (or the Czech setting sourcebook).

- C.

[Ewan]

Huh. I didn't think anyone actually downloaded and read that one (or the Czech setting sourcebook).

- C.

Yes I downloaded it a good number of years ago and was really pleased with the number of British vehicles in it and the British units in the Czech sourcebook.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Despite the bad rep given to many of us here, I think some of you would be surprised at how accepting we have been of the various books etc. etc. such as the Czech vehicle book. From what I recall, quite a few people were interested in it.

[Tegyrius]

Thank you, gentlemen.

@SSC - while I am quite cynical about this forum's overall culture and the reception 2013 received here, my comment in this case was meant at face value. The Czech setting sourcebook received a good reception, now that I look back at its release thread, but there was literally zero comment on the release of Czech Your Engine. I always figured no one cared, which is part of why it took me another ten years to produce anything else of significant size for this game line.

- C.

[sellanraa]

My ire was not directed at you, so my apologies if it felt as though it was.
I share your opinion, whether to back the kickstarter is a personal decision and I never felt as though your interest in the kickstarter was generating any push at me to support it.

Echoing Rae, I know my post was to express my enthusiasm that this game is getting any fresh attention. I really have no stake in whether anyone supports or doesn't support the new edition. So if my post was a part of this feeling of being pressured to support, I also apologize.

[Jason Weiser]

Ok all, am speaking as moderator now. Nothing's gotten out of hand, yet, but let's not think telling folks how to or how not to spend their hard earned cash is a good thing, ok And let's please watch the tone I know we're all concerned about where the game might or might not go, but that's no reason to stop being civil with each other.

Other than that, carry on.

[Olefin]

Fan produced sourcebooks etc will be a mixed bag as some people may want to push their own agenda on what the game should be.

Both the Korea and East Africa sourcebooks and the Rooks Gambit adventures are excellent examples of what can be achieved.

What would be interesting to see is more vehicle books by Tegyrius similar to the LAV-25 one, it covered a number of variants, unit organisation and individual vehicles combat service. Depending on what vehicles is included in the initial books it could see this being a welcome addition for people looking for something similar to the various vehicle guides that were produced for V1 and V2 and Czech Your Engine that came out for Twilight 2013.

That is exactly my concern with fan produced material - at the very least they should have a process to have it vetted before hand. I.e. I didnt just publish my sourcebook on drivethrurpg.com

I sent it to Marc who reviewed it and told me that some changes were needed to make it canon, that there had to be certain copyright statements, some general appearance and layout changes (i.e. he wanted a different font size and spacing changes). I made the changes sent it back and it was approved.

If they will be depending on fan canon - especially given its a new timeline and new Twilight War - then that needs to be taken into account. As well as making sure those with agendas dont make something that is wildly out of sync with the actual official canon.

That was one thing Marc made clear when I started to submit it - that it had to follow the canon if it was going to be published as an official release and that no matter my feelings on Howling Wilderness or other releases that those were canon - but that I could expand the canon wherever possible as long as it didnt directly conflict with it.

I hope that similar rules are put in place and vetting procedures so that we can get good quality fan canon for everyone's enjoyment - even to things such as please use this font, use this spacing, use this layout, etc. - and I mean vetted by Tomas and Chris

[Rainbow Six]

My ire was not directed at you, so my apologies if it felt as though it was.
I share your opinion, whether to back the kickstarter is a personal decision and I never felt as though your interest in the kickstarter was generating any push at me to support it.

My post was intended to suggest that people give Free League a chance rather than prejudging something before it's been released. Giving them a chance means just that - don't dismiss something out of hand if you haven't even seen it yet and you only have three pages of the product to go on. There was no suggestion that support should be financial. That's quite obviously a decision for each individual to make for themselves.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

To clear the air somewhat, I'll restate my thoughts on all this, that is to say that I am actually excited for the 4th edition release but I have no desire to use the rules system.

I will probably buy 4th edition for the world background and adventures but I have decided that I will wait until the product hits the shelves before making any purchases. So no, I won't be supporting the kickstarter and with the money that's already been pledged, they are already successful (I mean seriously, fully funded in seven minutes. SEVEN MINUTES! - we have already missed out on any part of helping Free League reach their funding goal because it was reached before most of us started making posts about it here).

As for the person I was commenting on, I didn't want to name names but it's definitely a situation of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Suffice to say that this person has implied that I'm being added to their ignore list so if that isn't you, then I will assure you that my post was not directed at you and that I never felt any peer pressure from you (or this forum in general) to support the kickstarter.

From this point on I don't intend to revisit this specific event but if any of you feel I might be crossing the line, please feel free to give me a gentle reminder, something along the lines of "Pull ya stupid head in you tactless twat!", that'll work

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Thank you, gentlemen.

@SSC - while I am quite cynical about this forum's overall culture and the reception 2013 received here, my comment in this case was meant at face value. The Czech setting sourcebook received a good reception, now that I look back at its release thread, but there was literally zero comment on the release of Czech Your Engine. I always figured no one cared, which is part of why it took me another ten years to produce anything else of significant size for this game line.

- C.

Okay, no follow up comments at all. Yes that's quite unusual, I can understand why you'd feel as though nobody was interested, I mean, there's absolutely nothing to gauge the level of interest, no feedback. That's a bit of a head shaker at best and incredibly frustrating and dismaying at worst.

As for 2013, I think some of the discontent was not because of "changing the game", not because of the rules or even the game world itself, but from the attitude of the person in charge. By that I mean things like the demand for proof of being in the military before being allowed to contribute military information, forum replies that weren't from direct personal experience would be judged as not applicable and so on.
And it did feel as though it was a demand and that you would be excluded if you weren't "one of the gang".

Myself and a few other Australian ex-military gamers that I know of were interested in contributing but the demand to prove our credentials gave us quite a problem because (as I am sure it is with most nations) it is forbidden to send military documents to foreign nationals. To do so would require applying for security clearances and so on and it was much more trouble than it was worth.

I believe that is what soured a lot of people on 2013

[Hybris]

It's a pity Tomas hasn't registered here and engaged directly with everyone. At the moment what we're getting is second hand.

I have informed Tomas about this Forum, BUT for the moment everyone wants a piece of the Tomas Pie everywhere. So far the best answers from FL comes from the kickstarter.