Announcement from Free League Publishing

[Benjamin]

After thinking long and hard about it...I just cancelled my $90+ pledge on their kickstarter.

It really came down to three things for me in order of importance from least to most...

3. Its a boxed set. I hate boxed sets. They are bulky and easily get crushed. I had funded enough for the metal oespecial edition but even that idea didnt thrill me.

2. It uses my least favorite version of the TL. Version 2.2 TL was silly. By the time of the August coup attempt the Soviet Union / Warsaw Pact were done. All the Eastern Europeans hated the USSR and even the Russians were apathetic. At least in Version 1.0 a person could argue that some vicious crackdowns might have put off the inevitable but by 1991 it was game over.

3. It will no longer in any way connect to 2300AD. As I said elsewhere, my T2K is always the past of 2300AD, my favorite RPG ever. Unfortunately, 2300AD is held by Mongoose Publishing and thus its quality is sub-par. If Free League had gotten the rights to 2300AD I would have funded that in a heart beat. But alas the two are separated so my interest has greatly waned.

Truth be told Im not really fond of post-apocalyptic gaming any more. Its so damn over done. I love talking about military vehicles and scenarios but Im happy with the nearly complete T2K collection I have now and dont need yet another version.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Truth be told Im not really fond of post-apocalyptic gaming any more. Its so damn over done.

I can relate to this very easily. Two of my favourite settings are apocalypse and post-apocalypse, I've got a number of movies, novels, TV series and games from these two genres because I would collect almost everything.

Almost... because I am thoroughly tired of zombie and mutant type apoc/post-apoc, they've been done so often that many of the stories/movies/games end up being pretty much the same. There's so many of them I've stopped collecting apoc/post-apoc RPGs and just focus on the few that I would like to play.
I think the way these two genres have been saturated with product, it's very easy to become jaded.

[Legbreaker]

2. It uses my least favorite version of the TL. Version 2.2 TL was silly.

As one of the few who've seen the new timeline, I think I can confirm it's NOT the same as 2.2 (or any of the other versions). It really only shares the divergence point with 2.2 and a few other very small details (Americans in Poland as one example).
Other than that, it's a complete rewrite which could still tie in to 2300, if you squint your eyes a bit and use some imagination.

Honestly, it's so different I'm not even sure why they're calling it Twilight:2000.

[Ewan]

Honestly, it's so different I'm not even sure why they're calling it Twilight:2000.

Because its a well known brand and people will back it.
If it was called say oeWarfare in the 1990s RPG you would probably get less backers.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I believe the question was rhetorical.
We're all pretty aware of why it would be branded as a T2k game.

[Rainbow Six]

I am thoroughly tired of zombie and mutant type apoc/post-apoc, they've been done so often that many of the stories/movies/games end up being pretty much the same. There's so many of them I've stopped collecting apoc/post-apoc RPGs and just focus on the few that I would like to play.
I think the way these two genres have been saturated with product, it's very easy to become jaded.

I've had similar conversations to this with people before. I enjoy the post apoc genre, whether it's Twilight 2000, Mad Max, Survivors (BBC series that ran briefly in the 70's then was rebooted equally briefly in the 2010's), etc, etc.

Mutants I can kind of tolerate. But I have no interest whatsoever in the Zombie genre. I don't even class it as post apoc. It's supernatural (or however you want to describe it). In my opinion it's a completely different genre, one that has virtually nothing in common with the one that I enjoy.

[Benjamin]

As one of the few who've seen the new timeline, I think I can confirm it's NOT the same as 2.2 (or any of the other versions). It really only shares the divergence point with 2.2 and a few other very small details (Americans in Poland as one example).
Other than that, it's a complete rewrite which could still tie in to 2300, if you squint your eyes a bit and use some imagination.

Honestly, it's so different I'm not even sure why they're calling it Twilight:2000.

Thanks for the info. Thats interesting and not what the initial interview and announcements led me to believe. But that could very much go either way. It be a good solid believable timeline or a train wreck (cough, 2013, cough). I try to take a look at it when it comes out in game stores but if its in a boxed set that might not be possible.

[Benjamin]

I've had similar conversations to this with people before. I enjoy the post apoc genre, whether it's Twilight 2000, Mad Max, Survivors (BBC series that ran briefly in the 70's then was rebooted equally briefly in the 2010's), etc, etc.

Mutants I can kind of tolerate. But I have no interest whatsoever in the Zombie genre. I don't even class it as post apoc. It's supernatural (or however you want to describe it). In my opinion it's a completely different genre, one that has virtually nothing in common with the one that I enjoy.

I agree. The zombie genre is repetitive and boring. And way over done.

On a similar note Ive grown really bored with the grim dark Sci-Fi genre that almost always tries to be somehow oeLovecraftian. I still like Eclipse Phase because the books are really attractive and the writing is good, but Im even a bit jaded by the new Aliens RPG (also coincidentally by Free League). Had a good version of Aliens come out 10 years ago I would have super excited but now its just one of many many oeHorror in the darkness of space! RPGS and so Im oemeh about it. (At least Aliens doesnt have the added trope of oeWeve lost Earth!)

Thats why I like 2300AD (and for harder sci-fi, Transhuman Space by Steve Jackson Games). Sure you could have a horror themed adventure or cyberpunk but overall its a pretty straight forward good sci-fi setting with believable colony worlds and excellent aliens. And as a bonus when tied to T2K it had a well developed plausible background that could be mined for adventure ideas.

[Olefin]

Its definitely not tied to Twilight 2300AD in any way - Tomas made that very clear that V4 isnt part of that universe in any way - so its basically a fresh start as far as the future - i.e. the whole Mexico takes over Central America and the American Southwest, independent Texas, the French Empire - all of that is not a factor in V4

And yes the timeline is different - enough so that its not a tweak of V2.2 - its a major revision of 2.2

[Legbreaker]

And yes the timeline is different - enough so that its not a tweak of V2.2 - its a major revision of 2.2

Revision Not at all. It's a totally new background that only shares a few small points. Reboot probably is a good word to use. That's always a good idea for movies and television, looking at the past with modern eyes always works right

[Olefin]

Revision Not at all. It's a totally new background that only shares a few small points. Reboot probably is a good word to use. That's always a good idea for movies and television, looking at the past with modern eyes always works right

Sometimes it does - Battlestar Galactica comes to mind immediately or the reboot Star Trek initial movie - but I have also seen that work very badly indeed - i.e. what they did to Khan in the second movie

and yes you are right - its a reboot - and actually its on a par with the Battlestar Galactica reboot as far as the changes if you think about it - so the question is will the fans love it once its out there (remember there was one hell of a lot of resistance to the BSG reboot when it was announced - i.e. equate the no 2300AD tie in to BSG making Starbuck a female) or will they win over new converts but at the cost of turning off the old fanbase

Getting Frank Frey involved helps a lot - got me if they can get others to sign on too from "classic T2K' - I know that I would love to write for it - and frankly as I have said Raellus's Rooks Gambit just screams lets rewrite it for V4

[Olefin]

Another stretch goal unlocked

We will now expand the boxed set with two double-sided extra-large combat maps (size 432x279mm) depicting the four scenario sites included in the Referees Manual.

All this is left is the Black Madonna

[comped]

Another stretch goal unlocked

We will now expand the boxed set with two double-sided extra-large combat maps (size 432x279mm) depicting the four scenario sites included in the Referees Manual.

All this is left is the Black Madonna

At the rate they are going, they should unlock that goal.

[Hybris]

I would guesstimate that this kickstarter lands around 4 mil if nothing exciting is added that people can't live without, such as vehicle cards or an surprise adon sourcebook etc.A success it is anyway since the most funded rpg game so for for FL is: 4 249 903 SEK for the Electric State, they may even beat that goal.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Recently the kickstarter hit another stretch goal. The Black Madonna rewrite is now unlocked based on the money pledged although when I check the kickstarter page it had not been updated to reflect this